Ex-service personnel

[coalition]

So who agrees with me that the OP on this thread is an attack on the former members of the armed forces by Midas?

He has on this and other threads argued that ex forces personell are all criminals, Insane, useless, lazy and stupid and makes up silly little anecdotes to attempt to prove his point.His opinions do not stand up to serious scrutiny, because they have no merit.
Oh i think he also called them a bunch of drunkards and druggies.Dougie G calles former and current service people Bullies, violent criminals and people who go into schools to steal lunch money from little kids.

Are they completely correct in their claims or are they haters of the first order??

So what. At least they won't be taking our jobs. Who gives a toss what civvies write.

[pauli007001]

So what. At least they won't be taking our jobs. Who gives a toss what civvies write.

It is civvies who write the laws that slash out regiments and fire our troops and send them to their wars.
On a forum like this it is no problem but when it spills over into the street and off duty soldiers are attacked violently in the st because of the job they do(and most civvies feel it is quite acceptable) there is a problem.When seriously injured and crippled soldiers are assaulted in NHS hospitals because of the job they do, again there is a problem.When vitriolic attacks are made against serving and former troops in forums like these which helps to reenforce the anti serviceperson attitude prevailent amongst many today that is an issue for concern, it is not long in my opinion before soldiers will be murdered in the streets by gangs of NULAB inspired violent anti military hooligans and no action will be taken in the interests of "preserving community cohesion".
I can imagine a few of the Haters on this forum getting into that violent behaviour against servicepeople, they know who they are, the ones who spout the most hatred of the troops!!!!!
Yeah, we all know who they are, the scum!!!

[coalition]

It is civvies who write the laws that slash out regiments and fire our troops and send them to their wars.
On a forum like this it is no problem but when it spills over into the street and off duty soldiers are attacked violently in the st because of the job they do(and most civvies feel it is quite acceptable) there is a problem.When seriously injured and crippled soldiers are assaulted in NHS hospitals because of the job they do, again there is a problem.When vitriolic attacks are made against serving and former troops in forums like these which helps to reenforce the anti serviceperson attitude prevailent amongst many today that is an issue for concern, it is not long in my opinion before soldiers will be murdered in the streets by gangs of NULAB inspired violent anti military hooligans and no action will be taken in the interests of "preserving community cohesion".
I can imagine a few of the Haters on this forum getting into that violent behaviour against servicepeople, they know who they are, the ones who spout the most hatred of the troops!!!!!
Yeah, we all know who they are, the scum!!!

Bloody hell mate, you just met the wrong type of girls. The girls I met only beat me up on Fridays. When they were pissed.

[pauli007001]

Bloody hell mate, you just met the wrong type of girls. The girls I met only beat me up on Fridays. When they were pissed.

When nothing else is available resort to the insults in accordance with NULAB teaching.

Also who the **** brought girls into the topic, this is a specific issue being discussed and you would belittle it with your mockery?
UK soldiers have been subjected to assault and threats by Nulabites in NHS hospitals, some of the nulabites were NHS workers, most were male.Now explain to me how you can mock and laugh at a cripple who is unable to move whilst some Nulabite is hurling god knows what abuse at him because of the job he does?
You find the treatment of soldiers returning from service abroad amusing?
You go along with the culture of abusing our troops, lying about our troops and violently assaulting out troops? I guess you are another Hater.

[coalition]

When nothing else is available resort to the insults in accordance with NULAB teaching.

Also who the **** brought girls into the topic, this is a specific issue being discussed and you would belittle it with your mockery?
UK soldiers have been subjected to assault and threats by Nulabites in NHS hospitals, some of the nulabites were NHS workers, most were male.Now explain to me how you can mock and laugh at a cripple who is unable to move whilst some Nulabite is hurling god knows what abuse at him because of the job he does?
You find the treatment of soldiers returning from service abroad amusing?
You go along with the culture of abusing our troops, lying about our troops and violently assaulting out troops? I guess you are another Hater.

Sri, lad we just never got used to fighting with our mouths, none of us ask for sympathy, pity or the crap your offering , you had to do it to understand. best of luck

[pauli007001]

Sri, lad we just never got used to fighting with our mouths, none of us ask for sympathy, pity or the crap your offering , you had to do it to understand. best of luck

Again No one is asking anyone to feel sorry for anyone here, just be honest at this point, given that you are all over the place and making no sense at all, are you drunken posting Here?

Sober Up and answer my points, perhaps then things may be clear.

I have 16 years under my belt lad, in many different operational theatres.I did it got the T shirt and went home scores of times.This isnt offering sympathy or anything else it is showing that the attitudes of Haters are wrong.

[Jim Franklin]

So who agrees with me that the OP on this thread is an attack on the former members of the armed forces by Midas?

He has on this and other threads argued that ex forces personell are all criminals, Insane, useless, lazy and stupid and makes up silly little anecdotes to attempt to prove his point.His opinions do not stand up to serious scrutiny, because they have no merit.
Oh i think he also called them a bunch of drunkards and druggies.Dougie G calles former and current service people Bullies, violent criminals and people who go into schools to steal lunch money from little kids.

Are they completely correct in their claims or are they haters of the first order??

Pauli, I do not like what they said anymore that you my friend, but the fact is you, coalition and I, as well as many others, fought to actually give them the freedom to think like that. Yes it is tempting to argue the point, I can be the worlds worst for that, but there are times it is simply better to sit back, have a little wry grin on your face, and think to yourself

What have you ever done for your country, have you laid your life on the line, have you buried friends and had to put your morals on hold to take a life in it's defence or the defence of the freedoms that you hold so dear, have you done all this to earn the rights you use so capriciously and thoughtlessly, I think not my friend, I and a million colleagues fought and died for your rights, show some respect and leave me to live my life in peace without interference or insult because you misuse the freedoms we paid for and gave you

That is something I always try to remember, I sometimes forget, but it makes us who we are by doing so.

[Don]

So who agrees with me that the OP on this thread is an attack on the former members of the armed forces by Midas?

He has on this and other threads argued that ex forces personell are all criminals, Insane, useless, lazy and stupid and makes up silly little anecdotes to attempt to prove his point.His opinions do not stand up to serious scrutiny, because they have no merit.
Oh i think he also called them a bunch of drunkards and druggies.Dougie G calles former and current service people Bullies, violent criminals and people who go into schools to steal lunch money from little kids.

Are they completely correct in their claims or are they haters of the first order??

Pauli, please explain to me how you could read the original post, by Midas, and come up with all the accusations you make of him. He simply stated his experience and wondered if the problem did not lie with the services in not better preparing service members for a return to civilian society. He never said;'... he also called them a bunch of drunkards and druggies'. Personally, I've seen vets (American) who performed exceedingly well when returning to civilian life and I've seen utter failures, and don't go all holier than thou on me, I am one and I have succeeded. Midas asked a valid question, made valid observations, from his limited experience. You are the guy who over reacted, went all ballistic and started throwing around wild accusations. He did say he doesn't "understand why anyone would want to join the military", so effing what? That's not an insult or hating squaddies. Lots of people don't understand why we choose to and we don't all choose to for the same reason. My reasons were probably different from yours. Me, I was a true believer, don't know whether you were or not and frankly don't care.

I do disagree with a blanket statement that soldiers are simply used to following orders and not capable of making decisions on their own and under stress. You and I know, that is exactly what we do, what our training teaches us to do and what is expected. Does it always work out that way? No, because soldiers are human beings just like everyone else. I do feel it was a statement made in ignorance, but not out of malice.

Basically, I appreciate your service Pauli, even though it wasn't to my country, but you're full of it with regard to your accusations and it either speaks to your lack of reading comprehension, mild paranoia, desire to stir an empty pot, or lack of honor in accusing someone of something they did not do/say. You choose.

[Jim Franklin]

It is civvies who write the laws that slash out regiments and fire our troops and send them to their wars.
On a forum like this it is no problem but when it spills over into the street and off duty soldiers are attacked violently in the st because of the job they do(and most civvies feel it is quite acceptable) there is a problem.When seriously injured and crippled soldiers are assaulted in NHS hospitals because of the job they do, again there is a problem.When vitriolic attacks are made against serving and former troops in forums like these which helps to reenforce the anti serviceperson attitude prevailent amongst many today that is an issue for concern, it is not long in my opinion before soldiers will be murdered in the streets by gangs of NULAB inspired violent anti military hooligans and no action will be taken in the interests of "preserving community cohesion".
I can imagine a few of the Haters on this forum getting into that violent behaviour against servicepeople, they know who they are, the ones who spout the most hatred of the troops!!!!!
Yeah, we all know who they are, the scum!!!

Pauli, few bits of advice, either

1. Start taking Meds urgently
2. Stop taking them Immediatly
3. Get some help!

That tirade is out there even by the posting standards I have seen for you.

[coalition]

Pauli, please explain to me how you could read the original post, by Midas, and come up with all the accusations you make of him. He simply stated his experience and wondered if the problem did not lie with the services in not better preparing service members for a return to civilian society. He never said;'... he also called them a bunch of drunkards and druggies'. Personally, I've seen vets (American) who performed exceedingly well when returning to civilian life and I've seen utter failures, and don't go all holier than thou on me, I am one and I have succeeded. Midas asked a valid question, made valid observations, from his limited experience. You are the guy who over reacted, went all ballistic and started throwing around wild accusations. He did say he doesn't "understand why anyone would want to join the military", so effing what? That's not an insult or hating squaddies. Lots of people don't understand why we choose to and we don't all choose to for the same reason. My reasons were probably different from yours. Me, I was a true believer, don't know whether you were or not and frankly don't care.

I do disagree with a blanket statement that soldiers are simply used to following orders and not capable of making decisions on their own and under stress. You and I know, that is exactly what we do, what our training teaches us to do and what is expected. Does it always work out that way? No, because soldiers are human beings just like everyone else. I do feel it was a statement made in ignorance, but not out of malice.

Basically, I appreciate your service Pauli, even though it wasn't to my country, but you're full of it with regard to your accusations and it either speaks to your lack of reading comprehension, mild paranoia, desire to stir an empty pot, or lack of honor in accusing someone of something they did not do/say. You choose.

US battlewagon on interception course in N. Atlantic with UK Crusier- challenge "what ship" reply - " this is USS Second to None" what ship are you? ans. HMS None.

[Don]

us battlewagon on interception course in n. Atlantic with uk crusier- challenge "what ship" reply - " this is uss second to none" what ship are you? Ans. Hms none.

lol

[pauli007001]

Pauli, please explain to me how you could read the original post, by Midas, and come up with all the accusations you make of him. He simply stated his experience and wondered if the problem did not lie with the services in not better preparing service members for a return to civilian society. He never said;'... he also called them a bunch of drunkards and druggies'. Personally, I've seen vets (American) who performed exceedingly well when returning to civilian life and I've seen utter failures, and don't go all holier than thou on me, I am one and I have succeeded. Midas asked a valid question, made valid observations, from his limited experience. You are the guy who over reacted, went all ballistic and started throwing around wild accusations. He did say he doesn't "understand why anyone would want to join the military", so effing what? That's not an insult or hating squaddies. Lots of people don't understand why we choose to and we don't all choose to for the same reason. My reasons were probably different from yours. Me, I was a true believer, don't know whether you were or not and frankly don't care.

I do disagree with a blanket statement that soldiers are simply used to following orders and not capable of making decisions on their own and under stress. You and I know, that is exactly what we do, what our training teaches us to do and what is expected. Does it always work out that way? No, because soldiers are human beings just like everyone else. I do feel it was a statement made in ignorance, but not out of malice.

Basically, I appreciate your service Pauli, even though it wasn't to my country, but you're full of it with regard to your accusations and it either speaks to your lack of reading comprehension, mild paranoia, desire to stir an empty pot, or lack of honor in accusing someone of something they did not do/say. You choose.

None of the Above his words were an attack on ex service personell, i called him on it, he has no answer whether i quoted him exactly or not that is what he and others who wish to attack soldiers on this forum have said, many have said much worse.

[coalition]

Pauli, I do not like what they said anymore that you my friend, but the fact is you, coalition and I, as well as many others, fought to actually give them the freedom to think like that. Yes it is tempting to argue the point, I can be the worlds worst for that, but there are times it is simply better to sit back, have a little wry grin on your face, and think to yourself



That is something I always try to remember, I sometimes forget, but it makes us who we are by doing so.

I'am not really X anything, I'am still Post Reserve which means I'am Retired Military Personnel not X nor EX. This always sounds like a waiter. Do you require the X service or the Y service Sir?

[Don]

None of the Above his words were an attack on ex service personell, i called him on it, he has no answer whether i quoted him exactly or not that is what he and others who wish to attack soldiers on this forum have said, many have said much worse.

Bull***t pauli! That's a flat lie. Guess you chose lack of honor.
Your reactions on this thread remind me of a hysterical little girl.

[pauli007001]

Bull***t pauli! That's a flat lie. Guess you chose lack of honor.
Your reactions on this thread remind me of a hysterical little girl.

No his posts were attacks on EX service personnell he did quite clearly state that in his experience that former troops were incompetent and incapable of acting on thier own initiative did he notHe went on to say that he had on 3 occasions hired former service people and on this he based his opinion.To me that reads exactly as I stated, that is what he meant.Now as for the worse stuff said by others on this and other threads why not look up the archaive and look at the thread started by Dougie G, it was titled "Army Good Or Bad" then read the vitriolic attacks made on that thread.
No sir It is you who is the liar, i am the one challenging the falsehoods and lies posted here by those who wish to make their attacks on Ex Military personnel or even those still serving. You would criticise my integrity yet you know nothing about me.I however know that you are simply a vicious person who wishes to hurl abusive and personal attacks against those who do not agree with you.Midas made his attack it is the OP I am not a liar, you are an insulting and abusive poster.

[pauli007001]

I can only speak of the few direct experiences I've had with ex-service people in an employment situation, which has been less than successful and in the three instances that we've employed ex-army people, we've had to terminate their employment because they were simply not up to using their initiative and working independently. I have heard from business colleagues in other companies who've also employed ex-service people that they've had similar problems. I'm sure these people aren't lacking in intelligence or work ethic and can only put their failing down to years of unreversed brainwashing in the forces to only do what they're told. If this is something which is true of a substantial number of ex-service personnel, it's perhaps little wonder than so many of them are jobless with all the consequential problems which can be associated with that.

Ok Don here is the original post, I deleted a couple of lines about dehumanised people and how they should be rehumanised etc(although in my opinion soldiers are always Human, i never served alongside a donkey) Is it still a lie?

Further along in this thread there are several other attacks claiming Ex squaddies are nutters, criminals drunkards and druggies, these are typical themes used to attack squaddies in the UK.Never has anyone shown any evidence to support these claims(actually i will call them bull**** lies, which is exactly what they are), now i stand here completely prooving my innocence of the falsified charges you have levelled against me, I guess if you were judged by your own standards that you would be now considered all you falsely accused me of being.

[coalition]

Ok Don here is the original post, I deleted a couple of lines about dehumanised people and how they should be rehumanised etc(although in my opinion soldiers are always Human, i never served alongside a donkey) Is it still a lie?

Further along in this thread there are several other attacks claiming Ex squaddies are nutters, criminals drunkards and druggies, these are typical themes used to attack squaddies in the UK.Never has anyone shown any evidence to support these claims(actually i will call them bull**** lies, which is exactly what they are), now i stand here completely prooving my innocence of the falsified charges you have levelled against me, I guess if you were judged by your own standards that you would be now considered all you falsely accused me of being.

To lend any credence to this story we would need to know exactly the type of jobs you were expecting former MP's to do.

[pauli007001]

To lend any credence to this story we would need to know exactly the type of jobs you were expecting former MP's to do.

This is true but Midas refuses to offer any evidence to support his hate filled claims, actually no evidence has been offered by anybody who makes their attacks on former service people, this is why i have ststed that they are blatent lies and mindless prejudice on the part of those making the attacks.

[Jim Franklin]

This is true but Midas refuses to offer any evidence to support his hate filled claims, actually no evidence has been offered by anybody who makes their attacks on former service people, this is why i have ststed that they are blatent lies and mindless prejudice on the part of those making the attacks.

Pauli, in all seriousness, you need to stop using the term "hate filled claims". Midas gave an example of his experience that was all. I do not agree with his comments as generalisations, but I'll be honest, I have met former service personnel that have had adjustment issues. This problem is complicated. Some of the blame lays at the feet of the Government, some at the MOD, some the Unit Commanders, some the individual but also some of it is ignorance by the public. This last one is difficult to address, we all know, who have served under fire, that only those who have similar experiences can truly understand how you feel, think etc etc. The Government, MOD and unit Commanders should do more to ensure that those leaving the services after combat experience are psychologically adjusted to fit back in to civvy life. In my experience, the younger the soldier and the harder the experience, the more difficult they find adjustment.

In all honesty Pauli, your displaying some classic signs of a failure to adjust as you simply believe your right and everyone else is, by definition, wrong. You read into posts insinuations that are not there and display classic paranoia symptoms. Perhaps the problem is not Midas's post, but how you read and interpreted it as you clearly read something that Midas did not actually say in the way you claim, and thus your counter arguments come across as pointless.

Seriously, have a think, take a deep breath and re-read what Midas said and take it how he said it. Like I said, I don't wholeheartedly agree with his comments, but I don't know what industry he works in and I don't know those he employed, so it is difficult to comment, but I totally agree with you that it would be wrong to extrapolate from this experience of his a generalisation of all ex service personnel.

[pauli007001]

Pauli, in all seriousness, you need to stop using the term "hate filled claims". Midas gave an example of his experience that was all. I do not agree with his comments as generalisations, but I'll be honest, I have met former service personnel that have had adjustment issues. This problem is complicated. Some of the blame lays at the feet of the Government, some at the MOD, some the Unit Commanders, some the individual but also some of it is ignorance by the public. This last one is difficult to address, we all know, who have served under fire, that only those who have similar experiences can truly understand how you feel, think etc etc. The Government, MOD and unit Commanders should do more to ensure that those leaving the services after combat experience are psychologically adjusted to fit back in to civvy life. In my experience, the younger the soldier and the harder the experience, the more difficult they find adjustment.

In all honesty Pauli, your displaying some classic signs of a failure to adjust as you simply believe your right and everyone else is, by definition, wrong. You read into posts insinuations that are not there and display classic paranoia symptoms. Perhaps the problem is not Midas's post, but how you read and interpreted it as you clearly read something that Midas did not actually say in the way you claim, and thus your counter arguments come across as pointless.

Seriously, have a think, take a deep breath and re-read what Midas said and take it how he said it. Like I said, I don't wholeheartedly agree with his comments, but I don't know what industry he works in and I don't know those he employed, so it is difficult to comment, but I totally agree with you that it would be wrong to extrapolate from this experience of his a generalisation of all ex service personnel.

********!!
I quoted Midas and all the other attacks made against current and former service persons, if you take the time to read all the posts you will see that all I have quoted has been said.If you look at the archaive you will find the thread started By Dougie G entitled "Army Good or Bad", you might go on to read many of the claims made by Dougie, Midas and others in that thread.
Dougie repeatedly said that all squaddies were skinheads who regulary engaged in violent muggings, groups of squaddies were known to regulary surround indiviual students and attack them with knives and all squaddies spent as much time as they could going to schools filled with younger kids in order to steal their lunch money. These are all allegations made on this forum, not always on this thread but often on this forum, seek out the archiave.

Oh and I have adjusted very well, I have a small but succesfull company here in the USA currently with 6 full time employees(4 of whom are ex servicemen from the UK, US or the PDF of EIRE.The other two are civvies and more closely fit the descriptions offered here of what all ex servicepeople are, they are drunkards and drug abusers (one i am considering dismissing due to his recent(last thursday) violent assault on his Girlffriend)).None of the former soldiers in my company abuse drugs.
Failiour to adjust is not a condition, adjust to what? A change in career?

I have no problems at all, i get up daily, go to work and earn a decent income, I am considered by many(by US standards at least) to be a sucess story.I know by UK standards I must be an exploiter of the worker and all the other crap they love to hurl but no i have made a little niche for myself(I found it using my skills learned in the army), I observed assessed and took appropriate action, definatly a failour to adjust, i made succesfull break when Nulab said i should be a drunken homeless drug addled criminal, **** me its no wonder the leftist nazis hate me, not being what they say i should be.

If one of those making these hate filled claims could support their opinions with the slightest shred of evidence, but no one has, not one.

[coalition]

This is true but Midas refuses to offer any evidence to support his hate filled claims, actually no evidence has been offered by anybody who makes their attacks on former service people, this is why i have ststed that they are blatent lies and mindless prejudice on the part of those making the attacks.

Many types of crap jobs are offered to former soldiers, indeed it is so difficult in civvy st now, that, except for the professionally qualified, most jobs are ugh, and last in gets the real dirty end.This is why what we are trained for is now being done by cheap cheap labour.

Civilians are more used to less reputable employment but, still everybody needs to eat.

Let it lay we know our value and, more importantly,our values.

[Midas]

So who agrees with me that the OP on this thread is an attack on the former members of the armed forces by Midas?

He has on this and other threads argued that ex forces personell are all criminals, Insane, useless, lazy and stupid and makes up silly little anecdotes to attempt to prove his point.His opinions do not stand up to serious scrutiny, because they have no merit.
Oh i think he also called them a bunch of drunkards and druggies.Dougie G calles former and current service people Bullies, violent criminals and people who go into schools to steal lunch money from little kids.

Are they completely correct in their claims or are they haters of the first order??

Pauli, that is utter rubbish and you know it. If you can't see my original point, and the remarks of others, for what they are, I'd suggest that it's you who has the problem. My suggestion, as if you'll listen; drop it and stick to talking about subjects where you're at least partially rational.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

I really can't be bothered with an argument on this issue but pauli007001 having just read this thread and being from a Military family Father RAF Uncle Army, Grandfather WWI + Regular - Great Grandfather Crimea etc. etc. and I was Green Jacket to Sandhurst etc.

I have also done a further 10 years commercial in Africa + related work.

Have you changed a lot since you quit because your temper tantrums would surely make you about as much use as a soup sandwich in any military situation I know of. Without exception I have found that the best men at all ranks have been unemotional enthusisasts for life, almost without temper, quiet, reasoned and scarey!!! But maybe I've just been at a more independent level.

Part of the reason I left was the imature approach of a lot of the overgrown children aged well into their 30s who I saw as dangerous than the enemy and the itter incompetence at understanding history and empathy of most I dealt with.

To claim that none have adjustment problems is palpable nonsense and merely ill informed.
EXAMPLE:
1. Dullalli Tup - track it down it may help you understand.
then:
2. Check out the Nam mortality figures in Nam, casevaced and discharged.

None of this is a slight on those who have served just facts.

Do also check out the homeless stats and disproportionate % of ex military.

Then add the fact that the Military's greatest recruiting tools are unemployment, social failure and poor education.

Did you know America has the 2 biggest armies in the world:
1. The largest fully equipped army
2. The largest Black Army

Even with these unlawfull wars in the Middle East based largely on lies and clearly morally unsound America is a busted flush when in fact war is usually America's salvation from increased military spend and unemployment uptake.

Even if they can provoke a war in Iran which they are trying so hard to do it is not going to solve the economy and I question if it will be adequate distraction therapy.

The fact that military are trained to different outlook and standard makes the adjustment more difficult and returning from wars that are clearly contrived and then unwinnable in any moral sense increases the anger of the returnee as clearly every single life lost in Iraq and Afghanistsn has been a totally pointless waste as both theaters have made security worse not better and the likelihood of hate based terrorism more likely.

With the size of force deployed it is clear the economy can not sustain the war much longer and clearly it will be a retreat sold as a victory.

The retiring vet will have even more problems knowing that in real terms they lost

The change of pace and style is something few ex soldiers can adjust to which accounts for the escallated suicide rate and increased social failure rate.

To deny these problems exist or rant at those who present them is little more than being crano rectally retentive and vets deserve all the help and sympathy, understanding and empathy we can muster.

I understand your confussion but running away from the problem and attacking those who address the problem is a huge disservice to the vets you clearly support as it builds them enemies.

I genuinely expect a stream of invective because, if we note your other postings, you are almost bound to misunderstand something and rant and abuse based on preconceptions of what you THOUGHT would be said.

Good luck and keep taking the sweetie!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[pauli007001]

Hi,

I really can't be bothered with an argument on this issue but pauli007001 having just read this thread and being from a Military family Father RAF Uncle Army, Grandfather WWI + Regular - Great Grandfather Crimea etc. etc. and I was Green Jacket to Sandhurst etc.

I have also done a further 10 years commercial in Africa + related work.

Have you changed a lot since you quit because your temper tantrums would surely make you about as much use as a soup sandwich in any military situation I know of. Without exception I have found that the best men at all ranks have been unemotional enthusisasts for life, almost without temper, quiet, reasoned and scarey!!! But maybe I've just been at a more independent level.

Part of the reason I left was the imature approach of a lot of the overgrown children aged well into their 30s who I saw as dangerous than the enemy and the itter incompetence at understanding history and empathy of most I dealt with.

To claim that none have adjustment problems is palpable nonsense and merely ill informed.
EXAMPLE:
1. Dullalli Tup - track it down it may help you understand.
then:
2. Check out the Nam mortality figures in Nam, casevaced and discharged.

None of this is a slight on those who have served just facts.

Do also check out the homeless stats and disproportionate % of ex military.

Then add the fact that the Military's greatest recruiting tools are unemployment, social failure and poor education.

Did you know America has the 2 biggest armies in the world:
1. The largest fully equipped army
2. The largest Black Army

Even with these unlawfull wars in the Middle East based largely on lies and clearly morally unsound America is a busted flush when in fact war is usually America's salvation from increased military spend and unemployment uptake.

Even if they can provoke a war in Iran which they are trying so hard to do it is not going to solve the economy and I question if it will be adequate distraction therapy.

The fact that military are trained to different outlook and standard makes the adjustment more difficult and returning from wars that are clearly contrived and then unwinnable in any moral sense increases the anger of the returnee as clearly every single life lost in Iraq and Afghanistsn has been a totally pointless waste as both theaters have made security worse not better and the likelihood of hate based terrorism more likely.

With the size of force deployed it is clear the economy can not sustain the war much longer and clearly it will be a retreat sold as a victory.

The retiring vet will have even more problems knowing that in real terms they lost

The change of pace and style is something few ex soldiers can adjust to which accounts for the escallated suicide rate and increased social failure rate.

To deny these problems exist or rant at those who present them is little more than being crano rectally retentive and vets deserve all the help and sympathy, understanding and empathy we can muster.

I understand your confussion but running away from the problem and attacking those who address the problem is a huge disservice to the vets you clearly support as it builds them enemies.

I genuinely expect a stream of invective because, if we note your other postings, you are almost bound to misunderstand something and rant and abuse based on preconceptions of what you THOUGHT would be said.

Good luck and keep taking the sweetie!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

No links, no evidence just mindless claims and personal attacks, not exactly a valuable post.
Define temper tantrums?
How can one have a temper tantrum in writing?I write all my posts in a calm and frank manner without the use of personal attack and rarely using profanity, others might consider doing the same.

[pauli007001]

Pauli, that is utter rubbish and you know it. If you can't see my original point, and the remarks of others, for what they are, I'd suggest that it's you who has the problem. My suggestion, as if you'll listen; drop it and stick to talking about subjects where you're at least partially rational.

OOOH personal attack my Moderator = moderator encouraging personal attacks against a specific poster. Wasnt that the exact reason for opening this thread anyway? Given that Dougies "Army Good or Bad" thread had been closed?
I have yet to see one shred of evidence supporting the claims that ex soldiers are drunkards, druggies, criminals and homeless incapable of completint the simplest rtask without an officer and an NCO stood behind them giving specific Instructions, that may have been true in 1815 but not in the last 100 or so years, again one shred of valid evidence .

[Midas]

OOOH personal attack my Moderator = moderator encouraging personal attacks against a specific poster. Wasnt that the exact reason for opening this thread anyway? Given that Dougies "Army Good or Bad" thread had been closed?
I have yet to see one shred of evidence supporting the claims that ex soldiers are drunkards, druggies, criminals and homeless incapable of completint the simplest rtask without an officer and an NCO stood behind them giving specific Instructions, that may have been true in 1815 but not in the last 100 or so years, again one shred of valid evidence .

Pauli, to be honest it's not worth arguing with you; you've got your own distorted view of what people have said and what their motives might be, and no amount of rational discussion will make you change your mind. Perhaps if you looked to yourself more you might get an inkling of what all the other members here that you've attacked over the years have been on about, but since you seem to think that any form of psychoanalysis is rubbish too, I guess there's not a lot of point.

[Jim Franklin]

Pauli, your now becoming annoying, like a penchant child.

In the UK ex-service personnel are at greater risk of suicide..FACT

The same is sadly also true for US Service personnel

And here is something that covers the homelessness subject and PTSD as a mental Illness

Under Section 189 of the Housing Act 1996, a homeless person will have a priority need for rehousing if s/he is vulnerable as a result of "having been a member of Her Majesty’s regular naval, military or air forces".

Several factors make ex-service people more vulnerable to homelessness than the population at large. Post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), a serious mental health condition, is increasingly common among soldiers returning from combat, and can prevent ex-service personnel from finding suitable employment or living unsupported. More information on PTSD is available at Combat Stress.

The full piece is found here

Also here is a piece from a Crisis flyer.

In recent Crisis research looking at people's turning points into homelessness those most often cited by UK male participants were relationship breakdown, substance misuse, and leaving an institution (prison, care, hospital etc.). However, one in four homeless people have been found to be ex-service personnel who have found blending back into society extremely difficult, many initially find homes, but those we have found on the street suffer from , often undiagnosed, PTSD and find themselves unable to sustain a tenancy, hold down employment and suffer from potentially serious behavioural problems. Sadly we have found that more than 60% of those ex-service personnel live rough either commit suicide, end up incarcerated for serious offences or simply die through untreated illness.

You might also like to read this

Or there is this from the MOD themselves..

Recent data from homelessness day centres and accommodation projects across England shows that, on average:[11]

26% of clients were ex-Service personnel
18% of clients were prison leavers
14% of clients were care leavers
23% of Clients were Mental Health Patients
19% of clients had other reasons

Information of employment issues are hard to come-by for some reason. Plenty of information on the help given by various charities, organisations and private companies only wishing to employ service Veterans, but I did manage to track this down after about 60 pages!

Though it is accurate to say the majority of ex-service personnel find and retain employment without any problems, in fact many are very highly valued by their employers for their dedication, time-keeping, honesty, common sense and ability to think on their feet, it is also true that about 15% seem to find the adjustment to a civilian way of life difficult. Employers have cited alcohol abuse, violence, threatening behaviour and an unwillingness to perform as reasons for why many ex-service personnel are let go. Investigations often show that these individuals need extra help to cope, they often find themselves drifting from job to job, often low paid, and a large fraction of this minority end up filling the homeless statistics around the United Kingdom

Further, from the Ministry of Justice

recent research has shown that ex-service personnel are more likely to come into contact with the Police and the Justice system than other groups within society. It has been shown that many of these have underlying mental health, alcohol and substance abuse issues, often all are related to their experiences in the service of the country. Special care should be taken when dealing with these individuals as missed symptoms of underlying mental health or other medical issues may result in re-offending and exacerbating these under lying issues.

Now Pauli, I know a shed load of ex-squadies, I live in Bury St Edmunds, home to the Royal Anglians, and I do not know of any former or serving personnel, whether Army, RAF or RN, that do now acknowledge that a large minority do have problems adjusting to civilian life, have trouble keeping a job and do fall into substance/alcohol abuse.

Stating facts does not mean there is a problem with these people per se, it is implying there is a serious problem with how some are demobbed and that this should be looked at.

It is telling that all the quotes above indicate that many who fall through the cracks into this underbelly of society have underlying mental health issues.

Now please, stop being a donkey and accept that is does not always go right and just because people mention it does not mean they are attacking with "hate filled comments"

With your attitude and reactions, I am slowly forming the opinion that you do not have a job as your attitude prevents it, or that the way you are is a direct result of not wanting to accept that you have mental health issues yourself, perhaps an alcohol or substance abuse problem, and so you take these comments as personal attacks. If this is the case, please seek help.

[Don]

No his posts were attacks on EX service personnell he did quite clearly state that in his experience that former troops were incompetent and incapable of acting on thier own initiative did he notHe went on to say that he had on 3 occasions hired former service people and on this he based his opinion.To me that reads exactly as I stated, that is what he meant.Now as for the worse stuff said by others on this and other threads why not look up the archaive and look at the thread started by Dougie G, it was titled "Army Good Or Bad" then read the vitriolic attacks made on that thread.
No sir It is you who is the liar, i am the one challenging the falsehoods and lies posted here by those who wish to make their attacks on Ex Military personnel or even those still serving. You would criticise my integrity yet you know nothing about me.I however know that you are simply a vicious person who wishes to hurl abusive and personal attacks against those who do not agree with you.Midas made his attack it is the OP I am not a liar, you are an insulting and abusive poster.

Blah, Blah, Blah. Anyone who challenges your BS is accused of being abusive, hate filled and making personal attacks, but when you make up stuff all is ok. Grow the **** up.

Ps: Want cheese with that whine?

[Don]

Ok Don here is the original post, I deleted a couple of lines about dehumanised people and how they should be rehumanised etc(although in my opinion soldiers are always Human, i never served alongside a donkey) Is it still a lie?

Further along in this thread there are several other attacks claiming Ex squaddies are nutters, criminals drunkards and druggies, these are typical themes used to attack squaddies in the UK.Never has anyone shown any evidence to support these claims(actually i will call them bull**** lies, which is exactly what they are), now i stand here completely prooving my innocence of the falsified charges you have levelled against me, I guess if you were judged by your own standards that you would be now considered all you falsely accused me of being.

He is still clearly stating that it is his personal experience and that of a few others. Still no, hate filled, abusive attacks on ex service personnel. If anything he 'attacks', very mildly, the services for not doing a good job of preparing the separating service member for civilian life. You simply over react and apparently have a comprehension problem. Also, pauli, your post wanting input singled out Midas so it's his OP that I'm concentrating on.

[Don]

No links, no evidence just mindless claims and personal attacks, not exactly a valuable post.
Define temper tantrums?
How can one have a temper tantrum in writing?I write all my posts in a calm and frank manner without the use of personal attack and rarely using profanity, others might consider doing the same.

As much as I usually disagree with Greg, he presented a well thought out reply, which you chose to reply to just as he said you would. You are so predictable it's no longer funny. As I said before, you come across as a hysterical little girl.

[Midas]

A decision has been made to close this thread to stop any further slanging from a certain quarter. My apologies to the many reasonable posters here; we might well open this up again in due course though.