Originally Posted by Marxist Nutter

Read what I wrote, Albion. I did not compare them to nuremberg. I said military/ public school ceremonies that I've seen were like nuremberg - in layout and choreography - this is just FACT - A leader taking a high position - everyone in uniform in rank and file - cannon firing falg waving - glorious Britian mentioned at least 200 times - it did look like nuremberg I was there! If you cannot respond to me directly then why bother at all. It is coz u know u r talking rubbish.
Stupid simplification and misrepresentation of the argument. Who ever said they had identical motivation?? Does not change the fact that we have been oppressors of the world and have caused far more harm than good in history and what do u lot do flag wave and sing god save the queen YOU HAVE NO SHAME!

Yes you said a School remembrance service reminded you of Nuremberg then you stated ...

"My problem with remembrance is it is just as much about forgetting as it is about remembering. [The vets who go to these services - they know more about war than i do and i do not question them or their motives. However us non vets do not really know what happened out there and it is us not them that paint this picture of war as great and noble (they know better) - it is the public who practice these ceremonies over the years and have warped their meaning."

"Remembrance services perform an ideological function to silence dissent against war"

As i said i have been to several services your descriptions are shameful ludicrous misrepresentations .There is no escaping what you have written MN , your bluster and indignation cannot hide the facts. Your loathing of Nation States , especially GB and Nationalism has rather warped your sense of perspective . 'Us lot' stand in respectful silence paying our respects to those (including family members) that have made the ultimate sacrifice . Can't remember 'us' glorifying war or considering it Great and Noble no doubt you know better .

I was responding to Spartacus as he addressed his post to me and seemed to be defending all the views expressed from the left.From his most recent posts it would appear i was mistaken .

Originally Posted by Marxist Nutter

This proves what exactly that mas murdering Britian is OK coz there have always been elites??- well whatever helps u sleep at night I suppose.

More left wing ideological nonsense , no doubt Spartacus can do better

Mass murdering Britain ... surprised you haven't emigrated !

Originally Posted by Marxist Nutter

Iraq was against public opinion yes. A war for elite interest (corporate interest yes). Many died to secure those oil fields including our brave soldiers. But no like most of the UK you are too busy flag waving to see what your government is doing in your name - THIS IS LIKE NAZI GERMANY - - just less bad by degree but is the same logic.People get all nationalist and thus blinded to the crimes of their nations. I stand by this comparison (although note it is actually the first time I have made it on this thread despite what you say) . Think it shameful if you will but more people like me in Nazi Germany may have averted a lot of suffering. Can you not see it any nationalist is the thin end of the wedge?

Completely ignores the point , our Elite did not act in their self interest it would have been easier for Blair to go with public opinion his government would have retained a big approval rating he would still be PM now.

We did it for the oil ....

Iraqi Constitution

Article 109:
Oil and gas is the property of all the Iraqi people in all the regions and provinces.
Article 110:
ST: The federal government will administer oil and gas extracted from current fields in cooperation with the governments of the producing regions and provinces on condition that the revenues will be distributed fairly in a manner compatible with the demographical distribution all over the country. A quota should be defined for a specified time for affected regions that were deprived in an unfair way by the former regime or later on, in a way to ensure balanced development in different parts of the country. This should be regulated by law.
ND: The federal government and the governments of the producing regions and provinces together will draw up the necessary strategic policies to develop oil and gas wealth to bring the greatest benefit for the Iraqi people, relying on the most modern techniques, market principles and encouraging investment.

http://www.uniraq.org/documents/iraqi_constitution.pdf

More absurd comparisons with Nazi Germany but good to know people like you could have saved the day.

Originally Posted by Marxist Nuttier

You and others are apologists for the horrors of British history THIS IS TRULY SHAMEFUL - HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME! - Worse still you have not the guts to argue me directly but only by proxy. What a wimpy Brit you r.

Very grown up !

Originally Posted by Marxist Nuttier

This is not about point scoring it is about keeping nationalism in check and remembering history as it was - not Thur rose tinted specs. All I've done in this thread is look at history (we are supposed to remember after all). I was defending my right to wear a white poppy. That was my whole point, of my remarks. In so doing I happened to say (almost in passing) that some school services that I have been to do look very much like Nuremberg and u pick up on this (make a big deal out of it) misrepresent it and try to paint me as this that and the other (by proxy without speaking or quoting me directly) - pathetic Albion I expected better from you

No you made a series of absurd statements (continued in your latest offering ), Trouble 43 covered most of the points i would have made you then came to a reasonable conclusion ... then the Left wing reserves waded in , you misrepresent remembrance day you deserve to get both barrels sunshine :p

Originally Posted by Marxist Nutter

There is no loony left agenda here. Just a critical view of history and a concern about nationalist practices and what they have historically led to in the past.

LOL i will leave others to judge.

Originally Posted by Marxist Nutter

Both you and trouble have misrepresented the arguments posed in a very deceitful and dangerous way that concerns me even more. Why does our argument scare you so much - probably coz I have a point

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it , thank goodness you live in such a wonderful Country where you are free to indulge your fantasies !

Originally Posted by Albion 69

I think we have all said our piece and see little point in continuing , more heat than light etc

One final point about ' we did it for the oil ' , i doubt the near Trillion $$ cost to the US , Multi Millions for the UK and of course the many lives lost were sacrifised to secure oil , after 9/11 the US thought they would take the fight to the enemy ....sadly they picked the wrong enemy ... a debate for another day perhaps.

I agree mate. I would like to finish (I am inclined to not respond further on this topic to Trouble as she is obviously getting very angry and personal) by saying this was never meant to be a personal attack on anyone, appolgies for not keeping my anger in check Albion and I respect your right to have pride in the UK even if I do not share it. That is not shameful and I apologise (was written in anger and I withdraw it).
As to Iraq. My point has been that loss of lives of poor civillans and our troops is not something that I believe concerns people like Blair. The financial loss of the nation of the USA should be seen in context of the profits of the defense and oil industries in which many including Bush have a stake - but as you say one for another day.