This is a discussion on Gordon's gaffe within the United Kingdom Politics & Political Forum forums, part of the United Kingdom Political Forums category; Originally Posted by Barry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iEoeCJXEtM Ha ha ha ha! Not what he was saying on the mic, through. People ARE ...
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Not what he was saying on the mic, through. People ARE listening to whoever does! Your too late, Gordon. BRILLIANT! Certainly the best part of the campaign. Made my week!Originally Posted by Barry
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Funny! I am like that with THE GUADIAN. As for parasites, doesn"t THE GUADIAN crusade for them?
Gordon, just was unlucky. He met one those real people, from the real world I frequently say exsist. The beauty of it was, she votes Labour.
Senior MP
I can fully believe that he said it, much like I believe that any MP says much the same thing about his voters behind closed doors. It would be nice to think that our beloved leaders had some respect for us even if they didn't actually like us but I dont think that many people who seek power actually do, it's just that you dont often get to hear it on national TV since everything is so stage managed and spun to perfection.
To be honest I was expecting police to raid her house the next day and unexpectedly find a load of Nazi paraphenalia but then I thought that would probably been a little obvious. If it wasnt for the fact that Labour was in all probability going to hang onto power I would be quite looking forward to a hung parliament as it's the only chance we are likely to have of ever seeing even the hint of electoral reform.
The person I feel most sorry for is poor old Sue whoever she is; probably getting her P45 about now I suspect.
Senior MP
Shouldn't that be "she used to vote Labour", just like millions of others used to, ha ha ha.
Course you're allowed to criticise! But if you criticise immigrants, or immigration policy, in a bigoted way it's pathetic then to complain about being called a bigot. It's 'poor little whining whitey' wanting special treatment.
I've a lot of sympathy for that view. It infuriates working class people, who take all the pressures of mass immigration (mainly housing and jobs) to be lectured by North London liberals who live in nice leafy streets with not a Pole in sight (except their nanny and gardener).
But that doesn't stop Mrs Duffy, with her talk of 'flocking,' being a bigot. Just because some liberals behave badly doesn't give her a get out of jail card. The woman's a bigot, in a small way, and we should be allowed to say so.
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Depends how forgiving she is.
World goin one way, people another
Huh? First off, Guardian has an R in it. Secondly, what do you mean by crusades for parasites? You talking about the Lib Dems? Your rag of a paper, the Daily Mail is looking to exploit this woman for their own agenda. They'll offer her the money, and she (like anyone would) will accept. But what is the story? Don't we all know it already? Wouldn't it be worthwhile to actually do some ****ing journalism? Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread going on about the Daily Mail.
Probably the first real person Brown has met on the campaign trail. I think he'd have done his image wonders if he said "this is why I thought she was a bigot" and then explained his thinking. Amazing how the actual exchange between the 2 of them is NEVER repeated, just the gaffe moment.Gordon, just was unlucky. He met one those real people, from the real world I frequently say exsist. The beauty of it was, she votes Labour.
Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time.
E. B. White
"To be honest, you think a/c jump the fence, I say the whole college jump the fence"
The wonder that is Angelcountry
"If we're going to have a police state, at least orgainise it properly!"
Guy Outside the Chilcott Enquiry as he was led away by police for causing a 'disturbance' (thanks to LA I now know his name is Michael Culver)
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Firstly, sorry, for leaving out the R, in THE GUARDIAN. Secondly, more a fiqure of speech. I think eveybody knows that THE GUARDIAN is left-wing biased, and I have noticed that its readers tend to have the opposite point of view, to myself and Mrs Duffy, about these overseas scroungers that have invaded our shores, living off our hard earned taxes.
Finaly, I think we should have a look at the sales fiqures of THE MAIL, and THE GUARDIAN, I think I know who would win. I don"t now about THE GUARDIAN, but THE MAIL, certainly wouldn"t use language like you used on a public forum, niether would I.
World goin one way, people another
The Daily Mail is right-wing biased, so coupled with an obsession with house prices and a God-given superiority complex, I have no time for them or their stupid paper.
Both papers are eclipsed in terms of sales by The Sun, so thats hardly a measure of quality. Maybe the Mail wouldn't use 'that word', but they deem it perfectly fine to imply the gay lifestyle killed Stephen Gately, or to smear Nick Clegg with 'Nazi' jibes (which were fake BTW) or to employ vile hate mongerers like Melanie Phillips and Peter Hitchens. Its a paper made by proper bigots, for proper bigots. Have you seen their website? Decrying the lack of morality in Britain one minute, then printing long-lensed pictures of some WAG on a beach in Spain the next. Hypocrisy, thy name is Mail.Finaly, I think we should have a look at the sales fiqures of THE MAIL, and THE GUARDIAN, I think I know who would win. I don"t now about THE GUARDIAN, but THE MAIL, certainly wouldn"t use language like you used on a public forum, niether would I.
Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time.
E. B. White
"To be honest, you think a/c jump the fence, I say the whole college jump the fence"
The wonder that is Angelcountry
"If we're going to have a police state, at least orgainise it properly!"
Guy Outside the Chilcott Enquiry as he was led away by police for causing a 'disturbance' (thanks to LA I now know his name is Michael Culver)
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I think we will have to agree to disagree, because I have no time for THE GUARDIAN. Ideal reading for the LIb-Dems, who endorse policies like sending car thieves to the West Indies, spending mine, and your money on hate preachers, pretending to be ayslum seekers, plus many more "good causes", I could mention. It wouldn"t be acceptable, even if it worked. Best leave the Lib-Dems and THE GUARDIAN in their own little perfect world.
THE MAIL, however, live in the real world. The world of myself, Mrs Duffy - AND MILLIONS! The truth is, people like to see WAGS, that"s the positive side of life they don"t like to see hear about our hard earned cash given away overseas, people making excuses for crime and most people do like to hear the British drum being beat, it"s in our DNA. THE MAIL highlights this, that"s why THE GUARDIAN is eclipsed by THE MAIL. THE SUN, yes, the top seller, and a good paper, but there is only two things I like about it, really, and they can be found on page three; perhaps that"s the reason for it being a success. Things like that make life fun. Keep harping on about the problems gay/lesbiam people have, calling everybody bigots, only brings us all done. It is probably OK for the trendy school teachers, and lecturers and their charges who are brought up on this idealistic nonesense. Sorry DTE, that"s the way it will stay, in the real world.
Exactly. Bigoted whites, for all their moaning about 'political correctness' and how they're not permitted to talk about immigration for fear of being called racists (Mrs Duffy tried that trick too) are used to being buttered up. When some old granny talks about Eastern Europeans "flocking" to Britain i.e. treats her Polish neighbours without proper respect and engages in bigoted behaviour, why not call a spade a shovel? Gently, courteously, firmly, tell the old dear where to get off:
"See here Mrs Duffy. You just referred to your Polish neighbours as 'flocking' to Britain. Do you think that's a respectful way to talk about your neighbours? Isn't it slightly bigoted? How would you like it, madam, if you were living in Spain and a local Spanish grandma, one of your neighbours, complained to the Spanish Prime Minister, on national TV, about you 'flocking' to her neighbourhood? See? Respect is a two way street. You demand and deserve respect. But that means you mustn't disrespect your neighbours. See? I'm sure that's what you teach your grandchildren - to respect their neighbours and to demand respect in return. What are their names btw.....?"
All those facts really get in the way of opinion-making, don't they?
Correction. The Fail and Scum sell better than the Guardian and the Times because lots of people are morons who want papers to do their thinking for them. Read 'Brainwashing: The Science of Thought Control' by Kathleen Taylor. Of course, I know you won't because you are anti-intellectual and anti-fact. But I wanted to highlight the book for anyone with interest in why The Mail convinces so many people with it's over exaggeration, slippery slope arguments, ad hominem attacks and lack of any sources for its 'information'. 'Propaganda' by Bernay is recommended too. For a basic introduction, 'How to Drive a Tank' by Frank Coles has a very basic introduction to the ideas. It has a bright coloured cover, you might like it.
Senior MP
Does 1.5 million immigrants from Eastern Europe since 2004 constitute flocking (Eastern European immigration 'has hit low-paid Britons' | UK news | The Observer)?
It is typical of those on the left to engage in name-calling and dismiss any concerns voiced regarding immigration as constituting racism in order to stiffle debate, whilst typical tactics of the freedom-hating left, such a strategy is actually is fairly amusing and ironic given that one of the key drivers of immigration is global capitalism and a desire by employers to have as wide a pool of talent / low-paid workers as possible. Who would have thought that so many on the left were actually closet capitalists who supported globalisation?
I actually agree with Mrs Duffy's concern. It was wrong to place the pressures which mass immigration cause - mainly on housing - on working class communities without building more social housing. That's the flashpoint you hear about again and again: it infuriates people to have to wait fifteen years for a council house. If, while waiting, they see Poles moving in it drives them nuts.
But Mrs Duffy's use of the word "flocking" shows she needs to learn a bit of respect for her East European neighbours. She's a nice old stick but is mildly bigoted. Why pretend she's a saint? She's a plain-speaking Rochdale granny who keeps a clean step. It was suicidal for Brown to mess with her.
World goin one way, people another
The waste of public funding on Islamic propaganda is not acceptable. I don't understand HOW you think anyone on the left would endorse this.
Huh? Well I don't understand that viewpoint at allIt wouldn"t be acceptable, even if it worked.
Okay byeBest leave the Lib-Dems and THE GUARDIAN in their own little perfect world.
Professional Wives are a positive side of life? In a paper obsessed with tearing down people who they see as morally corrupt, should role model status be afforded to people who are famous for no other other reason than doing a footballer?THE MAIL, however, live in the real world. The world of myself, Mrs Duffy - AND MILLIONS! The truth is, people like to see WAGS, that"s the positive side of life they don"t like to see hear about our hard earned cash given away overseas,
Thats the ONLY reason The Sun is a success. Its mantra is "maybe you'd like some half-baked journalism with your tits". At least the Sport doesn't pretend to be seriouspeople making excuses for crime and most people do like to hear the British drum being beat, it"s in our DNA. THE MAIL highlights this, that"s why THE GUARDIAN is eclipsed by THE MAIL. THE SUN, yes, the top seller, and a good paper, but there is only two things I like about it, really, and they can be found on page three; perhaps that"s the reason for it being a success. Things like that make life fun.
No actually it isn't the way it'll stay. Face it, bigots, xenophobes, racists, sexists, homophobes, they're all a dying breed. The Mail's core demographic is getting closer to the bucket every day. The younger generations don't share your view and the society you so fear is getting closer and closer. Gutted for youKeep harping on about the problems gay/lesbiam people have, calling everybody bigots, only brings us all done. It is probably OK for the trendy school teachers, and lecturers and their charges who are brought up on this idealistic nonesense. Sorry DTE, that"s the way it will stay, in the real world.
Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time.
E. B. White
"To be honest, you think a/c jump the fence, I say the whole college jump the fence"
The wonder that is Angelcountry
"If we're going to have a police state, at least orgainise it properly!"
Guy Outside the Chilcott Enquiry as he was led away by police for causing a 'disturbance' (thanks to LA I now know his name is Michael Culver)
Incidentally, despite being a bit bigoted towards East Europeans, Mrs Duffy emerges well from the incident. She's a highly respectable lady who refuses to endorse Cameron. That's cost her c. £50,000 from the Sun. But she wouldn't even give Gordon a cup of tea! You don't mess with Mrs Duffy (and, ideally, are not from Prague).
I've believed for a long time that Gordon Brown is an undiagnosed aspergers. Read the interview in the Mail. Many of the signs are there. Brown's a lovely man but, like many aspergers people, can get situations spectacularly wrong. Bonkers for the Labour high command to have let him loose on the nation. Amazing that Cameron's not doing better. He's polling the same as Michael Howard in 2005 (pre-recession, up against Blair).
I agree bal , people like mrs duffy are the salt of the earth.respect!
simple fact is too many people still cant trust cameron , hopefully there are no short memories.
It is quite obvious that Gordon Brown does not engage very well with the public on his election rallies.Personally, I think that it was a liability to let him talk to the public, but then again, a leadership challenge for Labour before the election and having a younger, fresher leader such as David Milliband would have given Labour more of a chance up against fresher leaders such as David Cameron and Nick Clegg.In contrast Gordon Brown looks worn out and probably a beaten man.It is no surprise that Gordon Brown made the mistake with the microphone.He does not look comfortable with modern technology and his presentation skills are shaky in comparison to the other two political leaders.
Accidental Poet
Brown's appearance, on TV, reminds me of the famous JFK/Nixon debate where Nixon looked like 'death warmed over' with his bad make up as opposed to a fresh looking JFK. Make no mistake about it, physical appearance does make a definite impression on voters. Throw in something like his screw up with Mrs. Duffy this close to the vote and you may as well hang it up, they always remember your screw ups.
I wonder why the things that should be so simple, so natural... like loving someone and letting them see into your heart... should require so much courage?
Senior MP
I'm a Labour supporter, but after the election I believe that Gordon, having used up the last of his nine lives with the Duffygate Gaff well be replaced. I believe that he is basically an honest person who has been maligned and ridiculed by right wing bigotswho are not fit to clean his shoes. He has in many cases been his own worst enemy and in many cases unlucky, but his image is not right for any post election reformed Labour party whatever the outcome of the election I feel he will go without a fuss in an agreed period. That is, unless Labour wins a majority which looks unlikely.
Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"
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In my opnion, the left are happy to endorse anything that is negative for Britain. Why? You"d have to ask Gordon Brown that. All I know is that I see it in everyday life. You see it in our schools, no discipline, no pride in country - which is in everybodys DNA, regardless of country, driven out by left-wing brain washaing in our schools and universites - and please don"t this all down to the right-wing press. I have friends and relatives who have gone through this system, and know this is NOT the case. Like left-wing dictators who are in office, you forget that I DON"T have to rely on the media, I live among it, like Mrs Duffy does.
Hate preachers ARE funded by you and me if you are a tax payer that is, I certainly am! If your happy with that, fine! Who am I to argue.
You can"t understand that point of view? OK, let"s assume you are walking home one night, and are attacked by a group of yobs, you are left with permanant injuries. Now! unless your saint DTE, your going want appropiate punishment. What is appropiate punishment? According to your Mark Oaten, a course of Go-karting lessons. Do you think there"s just a chance that"s not going to work (90% will offend again). Do you think next time they might murder you in the hope of trip to Disney World. Both prizes, SORRY, punishments are worth thousands of pounds in money. Or would you like a mandatory life sentence, for crimes of this kind, I think, god forbid, it did happen to you, you"d move to MY camp, in the real world. Understand this viewpoint now. If not, wait till it happens - THEN YOU WILL!
Let"s be honest! Who actually reads THE GUARDIAN: Long haired students, their teachers the middle class, who do not come into contact, with mine, or Mrs Duffy"s world, and a few from mainstream life. = A MINORITY! THE MAIL AND THE SUN = A MAJORITY! No contest!
And by the way, you had better include Gordon Brown in your list of racists, xenophopics, bigots. After 13 years of telling everybody that we are all in that list if we DARE mention the "I" word, he says we have to disscuss it, in a debate, because he is afraid he will lose votes to the far-right. That reminds me of someone on this forum. Can"t think who, through? Changes his mind like his socks, does our friend Gordon.
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In my opnion, the left are happy to endorse anything that is negative for Britain. Why? You"d have to ask Gordon Brown that. All I know is that I see it in everyday life. You see it in our schools, no discipline, no pride in country - which is in everybodys DNA, regardless of country, driven out by left-wing brain washaing in our schools and universites - and please don"t this all down to the right-wing press. I have friends and relatives who have gone through this system, and know this is NOT the case. Like left-wing dictators who are in office, you forget that I DON"T have to rely on the media, I live among it, like Mrs Duffy does.
Hate preachers ARE funded by you and me if you are a tax payer that is, I certainly am! If your happy with that, fine! Who am I to argue.
You can"t understand that point of view? OK, let"s assume you are walking home one night, and are attacked by a group of yobs, you are left with permanant injuries. Now! unless your saint DTE, your going want appropiate punishment. What is appropiate punishment? According to your Mark Oaten, a course of Go-karting lessons. Do you think there"s just a chance that"s not going to work (90% will offend again). Do you think next time they might murder you in the hope of trip to Disney World. Both prizes, SORRY, punishments are worth thousands of pounds in money. Or would you like a mandatory life sentence, for crimes of this kind, I think, god forbid, it did happen to you, you"d move to MY camp, in the real world. Understand this viewpoint now. If not, wait till it happens - THEN YOU WILL!
Let"s be honest! Who actually reads THE GUARDIAN: Long haired students, their teachers the middle class, who do not come into contact, with mine, or Mrs Duffy"s world, and a few from mainstream life. = A MINORITY! THE MAIL AND THE SUN = A MAJORITY! No contest!
And by the way, you had better include Gordon Brown in your list of racists, xenophopics, bigots. After 13 years of telling everybody that we are all in that list if we DARE mention the "I" word, he says we have to disscuss it, in a debate, because he is afraid he will lose votes to the far-right. That reminds me of someone on this forum. Can"t think who, through? Changes his mind like his socks, does our friend Gordon.
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They are facts that can"t be ignored, Dougie. As I said to DTE, we don"t need the media to highlight them.
Dougie, The reason THE MAIL and THE SUN out sell THE GUARDIAN is because the readers want something they can relate too. THE GUARDIAN is like the BBC, known for its left-wing outlook. Those other publications, whatever they are, I can"t comment on, because I have never heard of them. Besides, I thought we were talking about popular newspapers.
You say I am anti-intellectual. It depends what you mean intellectual. The kind of inellectuals we have in office and staffing some of our schools and universities - GUILTY AS CHARGED! I am certainly not anti-fact. In fact, again as I frquently state, I don"t need the media to tell me what to think, I see it everyday, without any help from THE MAIL or THE SUN - OR ANYBODY! So does our friend in Rochdale - SO DO MILLIONS! That is why the left are out numbered.
World goin one way, people another
Octopus, your post reminds me of ex-footballer Jay Jay Okocha, so good they named him twice. Except your post is so crazy you posted it twice. Anyway, your points...
Are you suggesting the left wing DON'T "live among it"? No dicipline in schools is down to left-wing brain washing? What? Because they can't smack the kids anymore? Well when I was at school they couldn't smack the kids, and there was still dicipline then. The lack of dicipline with kids comes from no dicipline at home. It might make you feel better to blame that on left-wing brainwashing, but in actual fact it just comes down to personal responsibility and bad parenting. Not sure how you blame that on Gordon Brown, but whatever floats your boat. Same with lack of pride in Britain, what could that be down to I wonder? Could it be the ilegal war that MOST (since you love majority-based arguments) of the country were against? Or the effect of that war on our communities here? Or maybe selling us out to the EU? The lack of leadership and real debate we've had for 13 years? Maybe the breakdown and dumbing down of culture? Do we really blame all this on Gordon Brown? A country gets the government it deserves and there are many things wrong with this country. You cant blame it all on Gordon Brown, or left-wing ideology.
Yeah it is disgusting. I don't want my taxes going to hate preachers either.Hate preachers ARE funded by you and me if you are a tax payer that is, I certainly am! If your happy with that, fine! Who am I to argue.
First off, I said "I don't understand that view at all" in response to your quoteYou can"t understand that point of view? OK, let"s assume you are walking home one night, and are attacked by a group of yobs, you are left with permanant injuries. Now! unless your saint DTE, your going want appropiate punishment. What is appropiate punishment? According to your Mark Oaten, a course of Go-karting lessons. Do you think there"s just a chance that"s not going to work (90% will offend again). Do you think next time they might murder you in the hope of trip to Disney World. Both prizes, SORRY, punishments are worth thousands of pounds in money. Or would you like a mandatory life sentence, for crimes of this kind, I think, god forbid, it did happen to you, you"d move to MY camp, in the real world. Understand this viewpoint now. If not, wait till it happens - THEN YOU WILL!
which still makes no sense to me. I think pretty much any solution to a problem is acceptable if it works. As for the rest of that, well...you just continue to make up arguments that I haven't made, don't let me stop youIt wouldn"t be acceptable, even if it worked.
No way I never thought of it like that before. CAPITALISED THOUGHTS+STEREOTYPES=AUTOMATICALLY WINNING THE ARGUMENT. Wow. Must try that more often.Let"s be honest! Who actually reads THE GUARDIAN: Long haired students, their teachers the middle class, who do not come into contact, with mine, or Mrs Duffy"s world, and a few from mainstream life. = A MINORITY! THE MAIL AND THE SUN = A MAJORITY! No contest!
I don't think Brown is racist or bigoted. He's just an idiot who is probably mentally ill. Again, you are making up things I haven't said so please continue, I wouldn't want to stop your ranting by actually offering an opinion on these issues like prisons, dicipline, immigration, etc. Whats the point when you've already decided that all left wing people are long haired hippies. Jesus, you never know I might have actually agreed with some of the things you wrote. Go and read your Mail and blame all the problems in the world on the people IT TELLS YOU TO!And by the way, you had better include Gordon Brown in your list of racists, xenophopics, bigots. After 13 years of telling everybody that we are all in that list if we DARE mention the "I" word, he says we have to disscuss it, in a debate, because he is afraid he will lose votes to the far-right. That reminds me of someone on this forum. Can"t think who, through? Changes his mind like his socks, does our friend Gordon.
Last edited by DTE; 03-05-2010 at 04:37 PM. Reason: shocking spelling
Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time.
E. B. White
"To be honest, you think a/c jump the fence, I say the whole college jump the fence"
The wonder that is Angelcountry
"If we're going to have a police state, at least orgainise it properly!"
Guy Outside the Chilcott Enquiry as he was led away by police for causing a 'disturbance' (thanks to LA I now know his name is Michael Culver)
Funny, then, how support for the Lib Dems and Labour combined is enormous compared to the Tories/BNP combined, huh? Why is that the case if there are so few left wingers in Britain? We have always been known for being quite a liberal country.
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Indeed, left-wing people do live among the problems I mention - Mrs Duffy is one such example. Always voted Labour. However, The BNP get a lot of their recruits from ex-Labour voters; I wonder how far right she will go? I find it ironic that Mr Brown now admits we have an immigration problem.
Coming back to Mrs Duffy, who this thread is about (we seem to be going off topic). She is a lady that sees first hand that the sentimental left-wing clap trap doesn"t work - and never will. Whether that be IMMIGRATION, or law and order, discipline in schools, prisons - all are related. Gordon Brown is not responsible for all our ills, true. But he is for a lot of them: Crime, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the economy, the break down of standards and left -wing bias in our schools, although this has been going on for decades, plus many more, along with Tony Blair. True, bad parents are responsible as well, and should be dealt with. That is to say parents that neglect their children, and allow them to damage property and commit crimes, should be taken into care, and parents liable for any damage their offspring do. Gordon Brown and Tony Blair have been the worst PMs in history for the above reasons. They have made the problems worse by ten fold, by their weak, naive policies, and, as we have seen many times, change their minds on a whim.
As for the point of view: I rest my case. In other words wait to you get mugged or WORSE! It means in simple terms, the culprits get a free holiday out of it! Again if your happy with that, FINE!
You say you are open to any ideas if they work: How about the death penalty? How about corporal punishment? How about parents being accountable for the damage their children do? ALL OF THESE WOULD WORK! Despite what our resident "do-gooders think. You won"t get this with Gordon, "hug-a-hoodie" Cameron, and certainly not Mr Glegg. No, UKIP would bring in some of these things, including the death penalty, via a referendum. The BNP would probably bring in all these things, which, frankly, we need to repair the damage to our society. How far the BNP would go in reality, I don"t know. The cure could be worse than the problem. But they know what makes the British people tick.
You really should look at what the majority want. QUITE OFTEN THEY MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE! THE SUN and THE MAIL, like certain politcal parties, know what makes the British people tick. Churchill said: "Trust the people".
As for all leftists being hippies, druggies, long haired layabouts, certainly applies to some, but not all. But what they all share is a dangerous naive outlook, that has proved not to work, decade in decade out in all areas from cruise missiles to education. As for handouts to hate preachers - just vote Lab, Con or Lib-Dem, "Hook hands" friends will say thanks very much. All they need to do is claim to be an ayslum seeker - GIRO ON ITS WAY!
Senior MP
Has she though, or is she just listening to the same media rubbish which seems to fill so many people with hate?
I'm yet to see any evidence that corporal and capital punishment would work, except the repeating of the words 'common sense' often in capitals.You say you are open to any ideas if they work: How about the death penalty? How about corporal punishment? How about parents being accountable for the damage their children do? ALL OF THESE WOULD WORK! Despite what our resident "do-gooders think. You won"t get this with Gordon, "hug-a-hoodie" Cameron, and certainly not Mr Glegg. No, UKIP would bring in some of these things, including the death penalty, via a referendum. The BNP would probably bring in all these things, which, frankly, we need to repair the damage to our society. How far the BNP would go in reality, I don"t know. The cure could be worse than the problem. But they know what makes the British people tick.
They i indeed know what makes people tick, and use this to sell papers with their unsubstantiated exploitative bull**** headlines.You really should look at what the majority want. QUITE OFTEN THEY MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE! THE SUN and THE MAIL, like certain politcal parties, know what makes the British people tick. Churchill said: "Trust the people".
Guilty!As for all leftists being hippies, druggies, long haired layabouts,
Except the drug bit.
Sort of.
So unproductive has conservatism been in producing a general conception of how a social order is maintained that its modern votaries, in trying to construct a theoretical foundation, invariably find themselves appealing almost exclusively to authors who regarded themselves as liberal. - F.A. Hayek
Economic Left/Right: 4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74
Senior MP
Firstly support for Labour and Liberal Democrats combined is somewhere between 50-55%. However a large proportion of Liberal Denocrats hold labour in the same contempt as most Tories. Secondly why would you combine the Tories and the BNP? They are worlds apart. Politically the right of the Conservative Party is closer ideologically to UKIP than the BNP.
Somewhere between 34-38% of the electorate will vote Tory making them the single largest party.
I don't accept your inference that either Labour or the Liberal Democrats are left wing, anymore than the Conservative Party is right wing. Both Labour and the Liberal Democrats are politically moderate left of centre, whilst the Conservatives are politically moderate right of centre.
The hard left are now largely disenfranchised in main stream politics, although I suppose the Greens are closest to fulfilling the vacant slot.
Senior MP
The point is that support for 'progressive' parties outweighs support for conservative/reactionary parties. The lib dems and labour both being in the first category and the conservatives and BNP being in the second.
So unproductive has conservatism been in producing a general conception of how a social order is maintained that its modern votaries, in trying to construct a theoretical foundation, invariably find themselves appealing almost exclusively to authors who regarded themselves as liberal. - F.A. Hayek
Economic Left/Right: 4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74
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Probably frightiend of losing their benefits - if the Tories win that is. If you were a BNP supporter, would you admit it? BNP members are persecuted for their views in this country. A sackable offence for a Police or prison officer. I have had enough grief from my better half, for having a UKIP poster up in the window.
Senior MP
I haven't seen the research for corporate punishment, but I can tell you that the vast majority of academic research I have read (I have degrees in criminology) show that capital punishment does not work as a deterrent, indeed in virtually all cases where you have a contiguous states (in the USA) where one has capital punishment and the other does not, the state with the death penalty will almost invariably have a higher homicide rate. There are various explanations for this, but they are a bit long winded to go into here, oh btw, I am in favour of capital punishment before I'm accused of being some soft lefty-liberal type.
In terms of all this broken society business, yes, there are structural problems with our society but in my opinion these are due to our disconnection with society and our evolution from socially minded, socially concerned people to a nation of individuals motivated by the accumulation of material possessions who no longer care for those around them. For anyone interested, read Travis Hirschi's 'Causes of Delinquency'; it gives great insight into how social control affects and effects human behaviour.
Accidental Poet
Now, I'm curious as to why you support capital punishment, acknowledging that it does not work as a deterrent, if it does not lead us to far afield.
I wonder why the things that should be so simple, so natural... like loving someone and letting them see into your heart... should require so much courage?
Chancellor
I know your question was addressed to the Untalented Mr Ripley Don, but since this is a subject on which my own views have changed somewhat of late, I'd like to make a comment.
In general I used to be against capital punishment for the very reason that significant research has always shown that it's not a deterrent; murders are either unintentional, i.e., committed either on the spur of the moment or are an 'accidental' consequence of an assault, in which case thought of the consequences of the act wouldn't enter the murderer's head, or are intentional, i.e., carried out under circumstances when the murderer doesn't believe he'll get caught, so any penalties are considered irrelevant.
More recently however I've begun to see another side of it, which is the need for society as a whole to see plainly that the taking of another life will not be tolerated, and that there is an ultimate punishment, deterrent effect or not. I also believe that in a number of instances, such 'revenge' does help the families of the victims better come to terms with what's happened and gives them a sense of justice having been done, i.e., an eye for an eye. I would limit the categories of murder for which the death penalty was applied however to only those which involved any degree of planning (regardless of whether someone's death could have been foreseen) or which involved resisting arrest.
This is a matter which I think should be subject to nationwide public debate and that the government should take account of the majority of public opinion.
If this topic does provoke much debate, I'll move it to a separate thread.
"High taxes don't redistribute wealth; they redistribute taxpayers" -- Arthur Laffer
Senior MP
With regards to capital punishment although I do support it from my gut, my intellect states otherwise. My primary reason being that we do not have a perfect system for deciding if someone is guilty or not, we cannot state with 100% certainty that the guilty party is actually guilty so you are left with the fact that if a miscarriage of justice is found to have happened and the subject has already been executed there is not a lot you can do about it.
If we did have it then it would have to be down to a team of judges to decide, I wouldnt just state it was only for certain types of murder.
The richest man is not he who has the most but he who needs the least.
Senior MP
I think that's what's happened here. Gordon sees himself as mr. decent who wouldn't dismiss a section of the populace as 'these eastern Europeans' but he knows that there's a lot of working class people who are at best downright intolerant of immgrants and at worst out and out racist and resents having to placate them. Of course he also probably resents them having an opinion on anything 'cause he thinks and rightly so in most cases that they haven't a clue about politics and esp. not how the economy works.
The Fascist
Woah hang on, I don't see anything wrong with what she said. Her use of the word 'flocking' was perhaps a little clumsy but really it's the vocabularly used by Labour's working class supporters. And from the stats ripley quoted they are indeed flocking. Calling her a bigot was simply wrong and bias on Brown's part. The automatic assumption that being concerned with immigration means you're racist is absurd.
On the Capital punishment debate, and I think you should probably move em into another thread, Midas, I am for Capital punishment although not corporal. And only in serious cases where the chance of reoffending is high.
Christian Zionist
I am really pleased that he called her a bigot.
Discussion on whether she is a bigot or not, is redundant, as it was the showing of Gordon's two faces which really upset the electorate.
Labour is now left with the very hard core supporters.
Gordon Brown does not even have the support of his own party nor all of his party candidates.
On Friday, civil war will break out in the Labour party.
No, it might wait till Monday...
Jesus said in John 3:17, "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."
RULE BRITANNIA!
This, I think, is the mistake a lot of politicians make. They think people like Mrs Duffy are thick. In fact, they think the entire population are thick. I have noticed Mr Brown has a habbit of talking down to people on the campaign trail. If they haven"t been to some "red brick uni", they can"t work out what his up to. David Cameron is guilty of this too - as are a lot of academics I have met.
The truth is, the economy works very much like a business or home - only much larger. Most people can understand that. You can only take out, what you put in; if they don"t, they soon will do. So if what you say is true, it subject to change.
The reason people from the working-class are aware of the problems of mass immigration, is that they are unlucky enough to live among it. People like Mr Brown don"t! Mr Brown doesn"t risk life and limb in Brixton getting his Daily paper, nor have his children taught in some crime ridden inner city school, nor watch his whole way of life be eveloped by an alien culture. THAT"S FOR YOU, ME - AND MRS DUFFY!
Senior MP
As much as you would like to think that, it's not actually true.
So unproductive has conservatism been in producing a general conception of how a social order is maintained that its modern votaries, in trying to construct a theoretical foundation, invariably find themselves appealing almost exclusively to authors who regarded themselves as liberal. - F.A. Hayek
Economic Left/Right: 4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74
big.davie.g
and what glorious day might that be, you socalist oink,
All it takes for evil to succeed is that good people do nothing
When men cease to believe in god, thay do not therefore believe in nothing ,thay then become capable of believing anything. G.K Chesterton
If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?" William Shakespeare,
The cleverest thing the New World Order has done, is to convince mankind that It's a good thing to be enslaved.
big.davie.g
This man we call gorden brown notice how i deliberatly miss spelt his name, is not worthy of his name this scotish socilist git has dicreditid his family name and all it holds dear his words are poison, he thinks that all people with the same views as this lady are bigot's thats at least 65% of the popluation go figure.
When men cease to believe in god, thay do not therefore believe in nothing ,thay then become capable of believing anything. G.K Chesterton
If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?" William Shakespeare,
The cleverest thing the New World Order has done, is to convince mankind that It's a good thing to be enslaved.
Oh come on Fubar- its the classic phrase!
RULE BRITANNIA!
That is NOT my opnion, it is the opnion of one of the greatest leaders this country has ever had - Margaret Thatcher; so take it up with her, Jacques.
Senior MP
It's not really her opinion, you think politicians believe everything they say in a speech?
Believe it or not, Thatchers own economic policy was based on the work of academic economists.
So unproductive has conservatism been in producing a general conception of how a social order is maintained that its modern votaries, in trying to construct a theoretical foundation, invariably find themselves appealing almost exclusively to authors who regarded themselves as liberal. - F.A. Hayek
Economic Left/Right: 4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74
RULE BRITANNIA!
Well, Jacques, your Gordon Brown should know all about that. If Gordon Brown told me it was raining, and I was soaking wet, I would need to check for myself. As for the post in question, you only need to read The richest man in Babylon, by George S. Clason, to know Lady Thatcher, knew what she was talking about; tried and tested for over 5,000 years.
RULE BRITANNIA!
I doubt if Mrs Duffy would be influenced by THE MAIL, THE SUN, THE GUARDIAN, or indeed any other publication. What you seem to forget is that a lot of working-class people live among these problems, 24/7. As I have said before they get their information FIRST HAND. They don"t need to read up on it. It"s in their faces all the time: Crime, anti-social behavoir and mass immigration. All these things fuel the negativity in our cities.
As for corporal punishment working: Speaking from personal experience it VERY definately does. Many a time I felt the teachers hand across my ear, many a times my parents adminstered it. Take it from somebody that lived through that corporal punishment era, it is 100% effective on most unruly kids. I would NOT like to be at school today, with no discipline in the classroom; that to me, would be very frighting. Many people back me up on this, from other generations of. Given the choice between the education world"s answer to Gene Hunt, and the "hairy fairy" brigade we have today - give me Gene Hunt, anyday. At least I know won"t get shot, knifed or beaten to death.
Capital Punishment: That I don"t have personal experience of. However, my parents lived through that era and said it DID work, as the fiqures showed at that time. In fact, I was speaking to my mum about this some time ago. She mentioned an interview in 1965 with a Police chief who said if it is removed the murder and violent crime fiqures will go through the roof; certainly knew something, that bloke. The reason he knew something, because he was an expert. He knew that if you take away the threat of death, the evil people in our society will take advantage - and they have, and will in the future, untill it is returned. Lord David Steel, at the time thought he knew better. A fresh faced kid, just out of university, knew nothing of the world telling the establishment to go his way, because this the right way.
History has proved him very wrong. History and the murder fiqures will show Lord steel as a man with a big heart, but a small brain. Another thing I can tell you about the effectiveness of Capital Punishment, is that the Great train robbers took it seriously. According to members of the gang, they searched one another for guns. Reason. 1963, the death penalty was still in force.
A lot of people don"t need to rely on papers, whether left-wing or right-wing - because quite often they, or their loved ones are in the headlines themselves.
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